I still don't think you even needed to say those words to stir emotions.littleriver wrote:The strong words (i.e "coward", "idiot", "moron") are simply to stir the emotions a little. "Pretty Please" just doesn't seem appropriate at this time.
Windmills!!
RE:Windmills!!
Don't chase reports...Be the report others chase....
RE:Windmills!!
LR, so the "dilute" and "intermittent" thing is what i'm seeing on apple orchards on eastside of the state then? I'm thinking around the Chelan area, I will see a windmill here and there in an apple orchard, and i think they are a much smaller version of what is going up in the areas you are talking about. So those things don't do much at all then? There just there as an extra benefit just running a few irrigation systems here and there, when the wind happens to be blowing? That's very interesting.
The other question I have, is if Nuclear is so much more efficient, and it's just beauracracy that's holding things up - aren't we in an "it's only a matter of time" type of situation? I mean, if Idaho does beat us to th punch on Nuclear generated energy, and start jacking up prices for us, wouldn't we then say, "wait a minute, I want that!" Especially if it really does start happening successfully all over the globe like you say it already has? I guess that's a moot point if your main concern is the destruction of a wildlife area you have intimate feelings for.
If it is indeed the case that our Utilities Companies and the like, are holding up Nuclear energy development, then this almost reminds of the car conspiracy theory. That we have the technology to build much more efficient cars that don't need oil, but the industry is so huge, that the corporations and policy makers (GW comes to mind) that have a stake in the industry are somehow slowing down the process of getting these things into production.
And for the record, I think I now understand your use of passionate language. I think we can all agree that your argument is civil in nature. Although I would like to know what those gas attendants at Safeway said when you asked them about their commitment to wind power. :bom:
The other question I have, is if Nuclear is so much more efficient, and it's just beauracracy that's holding things up - aren't we in an "it's only a matter of time" type of situation? I mean, if Idaho does beat us to th punch on Nuclear generated energy, and start jacking up prices for us, wouldn't we then say, "wait a minute, I want that!" Especially if it really does start happening successfully all over the globe like you say it already has? I guess that's a moot point if your main concern is the destruction of a wildlife area you have intimate feelings for.
If it is indeed the case that our Utilities Companies and the like, are holding up Nuclear energy development, then this almost reminds of the car conspiracy theory. That we have the technology to build much more efficient cars that don't need oil, but the industry is so huge, that the corporations and policy makers (GW comes to mind) that have a stake in the industry are somehow slowing down the process of getting these things into production.
And for the record, I think I now understand your use of passionate language. I think we can all agree that your argument is civil in nature. Although I would like to know what those gas attendants at Safeway said when you asked them about their commitment to wind power. :bom:
Last edited by Anonymous on Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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EastsideRedneck
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RE:Windmills!!
This state has ventured down the nuclear path before in SW Washington. The geniuses that surveyed the property failed to take into the fault-line that ran underneath the site. After the state had funded hundreds of millions of dollars for the plant, it was not permitted to startup due to said fault-line. With zero return on their hefty investment they are going to be a little weary of venturing down the path again for a while even though I feel it is still the right answer for our ever gro:-#
Forget this... I'm going back to the bass forum.
Forget this... I'm going back to the bass forum.
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littleriver
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RE:Windmills!!
as usual, some good comments drew.
1. so the "dilute" and "intermittent" thing is what i'm seeing on apple orchards on eastside of the state then?
Those things aren't windmills drew. They are wind generators. They replaced the smug pots orchardists used years ago to keep the blossom from freezing during a late spring freeze. When these things are operating they consume "HUGE" quantities of natural gas and/or diesel. Fortunately they only need to be run one or two nights a year, if at all, but those one or two nights a year can save an entire harvest.
2. aren't we in an "it's only a matter of time" type of situation? I mean, if Idaho does beat us to th punch on Nuclear generated energy, and start jacking up prices for us, wouldn't we then say, "wait a minute, I want that!" Especially if it really does start happening successfully all over the globe like you say it already has? I guess that's a moot point if your main concern is the destruction of a wildlife area you have intimate feelings for.
A very poignant point Drew. In fact this is my primary concern now. That we say "wait a minute" sooner rather than later. Unfortunately, in the meantime enlightened utilities seem to be focused on destroying as much of our recreational resource as fast as they possibly can. The sooner we all say "wait a minute" the sooner we can stop the madness so to say. And speaking of madness.. check out the press release today...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ELLENSBURG, Wash. (AP) -- One of the largest solar power projects in the Northwest is ready to go on line.
The Wild Horse project on Whisky Dick Mountain near Ellensburg will generate enough electricity for about 300 homes.
The project was built by Bellevue-based Puget Sound Energy. With the wind farms the utility also owns, resource acquisition director Roger Garratt says about five percent of its electricity will come from alternative sources.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is unbelievable. It's been shown over and over and over again that solar panels, while useful in some apps, are net energy consumers. It takes huge amounts of energy to create a panel (that's why they cost so much) and they tend to become inoperable long before that energy is even recovered. Further they contain toxic substances like arsenic, gallium, sellenium, etc. and solar supporters have never demonstrated that they can safely dispose of these materials. Using solar panels to generate electricity for the grid is sort of like putting a small windmill on top of an electric car and thinking that you have created a perpetual motion machine.
Point 3. If it is indeed the case that our Utilities Companies and the like, are holding up Nuclear energy development, then this almost reminds of the car conspiracy theory.
Upon rereading my posts I can see where this is a valid response. But the car conspiracy case is much different. It was supposedly created by greedy and evil corporate conspirators. The "nuclear conspiracy" is much more highly documented and visible and it was created by a very well defined and focused political movement. It started in the late 60s and early 70s ( in the mid 60s the Sierra Club was actually pro nuclear) and evolved as one of the environmental ideologies. These ideologies are not driven by companies like PSE or safeway. What happens is there is 30 or 40 billion dollars a year being pumped into environmental activist organizations from tax free foundations like the Bullit Foundation, Rockefeller Family Fund, Ford Foundation, etc., etc. The trustees of these organizations establish the ideology and the activists promulgate (or market) it.
They have been very successful at building public suppport for their causes (hey.. 60% of the voters in this country believe in human caused global warming.. that a marketing success not a scientific one) and because of this success companies like PSE and safeway tend to be swayed by the green promulgators and proselityzers who are constantly knocking on their doors. And, by the way, the safeway gas pumps attendants who I talked to just shrugged their shoulders and told me I need to talk to management. After I left they were undoubtedly referring to me as "some kind of kook".
1. so the "dilute" and "intermittent" thing is what i'm seeing on apple orchards on eastside of the state then?
Those things aren't windmills drew. They are wind generators. They replaced the smug pots orchardists used years ago to keep the blossom from freezing during a late spring freeze. When these things are operating they consume "HUGE" quantities of natural gas and/or diesel. Fortunately they only need to be run one or two nights a year, if at all, but those one or two nights a year can save an entire harvest.
2. aren't we in an "it's only a matter of time" type of situation? I mean, if Idaho does beat us to th punch on Nuclear generated energy, and start jacking up prices for us, wouldn't we then say, "wait a minute, I want that!" Especially if it really does start happening successfully all over the globe like you say it already has? I guess that's a moot point if your main concern is the destruction of a wildlife area you have intimate feelings for.
A very poignant point Drew. In fact this is my primary concern now. That we say "wait a minute" sooner rather than later. Unfortunately, in the meantime enlightened utilities seem to be focused on destroying as much of our recreational resource as fast as they possibly can. The sooner we all say "wait a minute" the sooner we can stop the madness so to say. And speaking of madness.. check out the press release today...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ELLENSBURG, Wash. (AP) -- One of the largest solar power projects in the Northwest is ready to go on line.
The Wild Horse project on Whisky Dick Mountain near Ellensburg will generate enough electricity for about 300 homes.
The project was built by Bellevue-based Puget Sound Energy. With the wind farms the utility also owns, resource acquisition director Roger Garratt says about five percent of its electricity will come from alternative sources.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is unbelievable. It's been shown over and over and over again that solar panels, while useful in some apps, are net energy consumers. It takes huge amounts of energy to create a panel (that's why they cost so much) and they tend to become inoperable long before that energy is even recovered. Further they contain toxic substances like arsenic, gallium, sellenium, etc. and solar supporters have never demonstrated that they can safely dispose of these materials. Using solar panels to generate electricity for the grid is sort of like putting a small windmill on top of an electric car and thinking that you have created a perpetual motion machine.
Point 3. If it is indeed the case that our Utilities Companies and the like, are holding up Nuclear energy development, then this almost reminds of the car conspiracy theory.
Upon rereading my posts I can see where this is a valid response. But the car conspiracy case is much different. It was supposedly created by greedy and evil corporate conspirators. The "nuclear conspiracy" is much more highly documented and visible and it was created by a very well defined and focused political movement. It started in the late 60s and early 70s ( in the mid 60s the Sierra Club was actually pro nuclear) and evolved as one of the environmental ideologies. These ideologies are not driven by companies like PSE or safeway. What happens is there is 30 or 40 billion dollars a year being pumped into environmental activist organizations from tax free foundations like the Bullit Foundation, Rockefeller Family Fund, Ford Foundation, etc., etc. The trustees of these organizations establish the ideology and the activists promulgate (or market) it.
They have been very successful at building public suppport for their causes (hey.. 60% of the voters in this country believe in human caused global warming.. that a marketing success not a scientific one) and because of this success companies like PSE and safeway tend to be swayed by the green promulgators and proselityzers who are constantly knocking on their doors. And, by the way, the safeway gas pumps attendants who I talked to just shrugged their shoulders and told me I need to talk to management. After I left they were undoubtedly referring to me as "some kind of kook".
Fish doesn't smell "fishy" because it's fish. Fish smells "fishy" when it's rotten.
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littleriver
- Commander
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RE:Windmills!!
Eastside....
I think the environmentalists have found a fault line under every nuclear power plant ever built or proposed. They also find huge cancer rates near existing plants, blah, blah, blah. Remember the downwinders???? That myth was perpetrated by having activists call in to radio talk shows and complain about their thyroids.
This is part of the marketing of the ideologies. When you have billions of dollars to spend on marketing, just about anything is possible. You don't have to worry about the truth.
I think the environmentalists have found a fault line under every nuclear power plant ever built or proposed. They also find huge cancer rates near existing plants, blah, blah, blah. Remember the downwinders???? That myth was perpetrated by having activists call in to radio talk shows and complain about their thyroids.
This is part of the marketing of the ideologies. When you have billions of dollars to spend on marketing, just about anything is possible. You don't have to worry about the truth.
Fish doesn't smell "fishy" because it's fish. Fish smells "fishy" when it's rotten.
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EastsideRedneck
- Commander
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:29 pm
- Location: Sammamish
RE:Windmills!!
Dagnabit... you drew me back in.
I know for a fact that the rad poisoning claims are bogus. I worked on/around operational nuclear reactors for seven years without incident- heck, I even drank a glass of the primary coolant.
The fault lines, who knows? The fact that the plant wasn't allowed to startup and go critical is what torques me.
Here's how we'll solve it: Build a nuclear plant and mount solar panels on the roof of all the administration buildings, put windmills in the parking lot, use a hydroelectric dam to create the reservoir, and build it on the side of Mt. Baker or Ranier for geothermal energy. There- now everyone is happy.
I know for a fact that the rad poisoning claims are bogus. I worked on/around operational nuclear reactors for seven years without incident- heck, I even drank a glass of the primary coolant.
The fault lines, who knows? The fact that the plant wasn't allowed to startup and go critical is what torques me.
Here's how we'll solve it: Build a nuclear plant and mount solar panels on the roof of all the administration buildings, put windmills in the parking lot, use a hydroelectric dam to create the reservoir, and build it on the side of Mt. Baker or Ranier for geothermal energy. There- now everyone is happy.
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littleriver
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RE:Windmills!!
Good post redneck. You seem to think like me.
I also worked at an operational nuclear facility for about 8 years.
This was in the early eighties and the eco-whackos were just starting to target us and management was confused as to how to respond.
and I swear to God that what I now relate was true.
I suggested to management that they put a whole bunch of solar panels and windmills on the roof and every time the reporters come by have the public relations people spend all their time talking about the great benefits of the wind and solar stuff. This way they would get all excited and leave without asking a bunch of stupid questions about nuclear which they hated. I mean I swear to God I told this to the plant manager. The guy wasn't too smart and didn't follow my recommendation but I think the energy history of our state would have been much different if he had listened to what I was telling him.
I also worked at an operational nuclear facility for about 8 years.
This was in the early eighties and the eco-whackos were just starting to target us and management was confused as to how to respond.
and I swear to God that what I now relate was true.
I suggested to management that they put a whole bunch of solar panels and windmills on the roof and every time the reporters come by have the public relations people spend all their time talking about the great benefits of the wind and solar stuff. This way they would get all excited and leave without asking a bunch of stupid questions about nuclear which they hated. I mean I swear to God I told this to the plant manager. The guy wasn't too smart and didn't follow my recommendation but I think the energy history of our state would have been much different if he had listened to what I was telling him.
Fish doesn't smell "fishy" because it's fish. Fish smells "fishy" when it's rotten.
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bassackwards
- Commander
- Posts: 338
- Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 11:27 am
- Location: Southern California
RE:Windmills!!
LR...
Not sure why my employment at PSE surprises you?? Doesn't really make a difference where I work. You are obviously a guy who has ALL the answers to EVERY question and you are obviously an educated man. That being said, nothing I say or "debate" with you will matter. You'll come up with a clever way to spin it and make me sound ill informed cause "that's what they all say", plus...I couldn't live with myself knowing I caused you any undo "rage" (I think that's the word you used).
Call PSE and talk with someone smarter then
Ironically, the wind is supposed to kick up tomorrow and I need to go to work to make sure YOUR lights stay on!!!!
My closing statement to you is this, life exists outside your books, go find it and when you do, don't debate it!!!
I too am going back to the other forums. Good talk :thumleft:
Hope to be able to fish with ya sometime, we can talk more then.
Not sure why my employment at PSE surprises you?? Doesn't really make a difference where I work. You are obviously a guy who has ALL the answers to EVERY question and you are obviously an educated man. That being said, nothing I say or "debate" with you will matter. You'll come up with a clever way to spin it and make me sound ill informed cause "that's what they all say", plus...I couldn't live with myself knowing I caused you any undo "rage" (I think that's the word you used).
Call PSE and talk with someone smarter then
Ironically, the wind is supposed to kick up tomorrow and I need to go to work to make sure YOUR lights stay on!!!!My closing statement to you is this, life exists outside your books, go find it and when you do, don't debate it!!!
I too am going back to the other forums. Good talk :thumleft:
Hope to be able to fish with ya sometime, we can talk more then.
God Bless our brave men and women fighting to preserve our way of life!!!
RE:Windmills!!
=d> =d> bassackwards I thank you for keeping our lights on.Out where I live we lose power every wind storm do to all the trees since I reside a ways out in the woods.So thank you in advance.bassackwards wrote:LR...
Not sure why my employment at PSE surprises you?? Doesn't really make a difference where I work. You are obviously a guy who has ALL the answers to EVERY question and you are obviously an educated man. That being said, nothing I say or "debate" with you will matter. You'll come up with a clever way to spin it and make me sound ill informed cause "that's what they all say", plus...I couldn't live with myself knowing I caused you any undo "rage" (I think that's the word you used).
Call PSE and talk with someone smarter then
My closing statement to you is this, life exists outside your books, go find it and when you do, don't debate it!!!
I too am going back to the other forums. Good talk :thumleft: bassackwards I thank you for keeping our lights on.Out where I live we lose power every wind storm do to all the trees since I reside a ways out in the woods.So thank you in advance.
Hope to be able to fish with ya sometime, we can talk more then.
Last edited by Anonymous on Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."Edmund Burke
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fishnislife
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RE:Windmills!!
I love you guys.
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littleriver
- Commander
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RE:Windmills!!
Hmmm... what happened to the ...
Wow...what a good read (took me a little longer than most). I work for PSE cheers not ashamed of that and I'm not afraid to "debate" any topic with anyone. That's what makes this country GREAT, wouldn't you agree?
You seem to have totally missed the point bassackwards.
If I call PSE I will be blocked. There is no avenue for discussion there. Just eco-bots pumping the party line.
It appears there is no avenue of discussion with you either.
My points were valid. They were detailed and I can back them up with whatever science you want to see.
I can understand you being concerned about the issues I bring up because they are extremely non politically correct and people in your position can get into trouble at work for even discussing them. And if you feel like you have to discontinue this discussion for fear of losing you job I respect that.
And I do feel rage at PSE because the company is violating receational areas I enjoy using. These areas need not be violated. There is no need to use them for energy production. I think that is fair and I think your response is total capitulation to my arguments. I don't need to spin when I have knowledge and verifiable science on my side.
Wow...what a good read (took me a little longer than most). I work for PSE cheers not ashamed of that and I'm not afraid to "debate" any topic with anyone. That's what makes this country GREAT, wouldn't you agree?
You seem to have totally missed the point bassackwards.
If I call PSE I will be blocked. There is no avenue for discussion there. Just eco-bots pumping the party line.
It appears there is no avenue of discussion with you either.
My points were valid. They were detailed and I can back them up with whatever science you want to see.
I can understand you being concerned about the issues I bring up because they are extremely non politically correct and people in your position can get into trouble at work for even discussing them. And if you feel like you have to discontinue this discussion for fear of losing you job I respect that.
And I do feel rage at PSE because the company is violating receational areas I enjoy using. These areas need not be violated. There is no need to use them for energy production. I think that is fair and I think your response is total capitulation to my arguments. I don't need to spin when I have knowledge and verifiable science on my side.
Last edited by Anonymous on Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fish doesn't smell "fishy" because it's fish. Fish smells "fishy" when it's rotten.
RE:Windmills!!
Completely agreed with you bassackwards...bassackwards wrote:LR...
Not sure why my employment at PSE surprises you?? Doesn't really make a difference where I work. You are obviously a guy who has ALL the answers to EVERY question and you are obviously an educated man. That being said, nothing I say or "debate" with you will matter. You'll come up with a clever way to spin it and make me sound ill informed cause "that's what they all say", plus...I couldn't live with myself knowing I caused you any undo "rage" (I think that's the word you used).
Call PSE and talk with someone smarter then
My closing statement to you is this, life exists outside your books, go find it and when you do, don't debate it!!!
Don't chase reports...Be the report others chase....
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littleriver
- Commander
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- Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:24 pm
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RE:Windmills!!
Sam. Bassackwards said nothing. He responded to none of my arguments. He simply said he was going to take his ball and go home. How can you "agree" with that?
Oh yeah. I'm still looking for someone from PSE for meaningful debate defending their windmills and solar panels in the colockum.
I feel like a warrior with a large double bladed sword standing in the town square demanding the villagers to send down one of their strongest and their most able warriors to do battle. The first one they sent turned out to be unworthy so please find me another.
Oh yeah. I'm still looking for someone from PSE for meaningful debate defending their windmills and solar panels in the colockum.
I feel like a warrior with a large double bladed sword standing in the town square demanding the villagers to send down one of their strongest and their most able warriors to do battle. The first one they sent turned out to be unworthy so please find me another.
Last edited by Anonymous on Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fish doesn't smell "fishy" because it's fish. Fish smells "fishy" when it's rotten.
RE:Windmills!!
:jocolor: :joker: :jocolor: :joker: :jocolor: :joker:littleriver wrote:Sam. Bassackwards said nothing. He responded to none of my arguments. He simply said he was going to take his ball and go home. How can you "agree" with that?
Oh yeah. I'm still looking for someone from PSE for meaningful debate defending their windmills and solar panels in the colockum.
I feel like a warrior with a large double bladed sword standing in the town square demanding the villagers to send down one of their strongest and their most able warriors to do battle. The first one they sent turned out to be unworthy so please find me another.
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."Edmund Burke
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RE:Windmills!!
littleriver,
He did say something. Seriously re-read what he just said to you. He even said you will just pull some way to spin off what he says to make him sound ill informed, and theres no point in arguing with someone so full of himself he's already thinks hes right. Which is correct. So why would he even try to put together a huge response to counter your argument???
Your doing this to make yourself feel good about yourself. Don't use people on forums for that. Thats not something we should help you out with.
Seriously though, you are just asking for people to shoot down. You have no intent on a healthy debate. You just can't get through to the guys in charge of PSE to "debate/battle" with them, and out of your anger, you are calling out PSE employees on a fishing forum to try and rip them up, which you call "battle" but I see it as more of a way to try and make yourself feel good about yourself...
Theres no reason to argue with you when you are saying you are some gigantic warrior standing in a town square. Seriously. Thats almost funnier then ripping on Safeway gas station attendants. If you think you are already right, great. No need to come and pick arguments to try and prove it to others. Especially yourself. You seem to shut down everyones views with your own superior knowledge so theres no point in holding any debate with you.
He did say something. Seriously re-read what he just said to you. He even said you will just pull some way to spin off what he says to make him sound ill informed, and theres no point in arguing with someone so full of himself he's already thinks hes right. Which is correct. So why would he even try to put together a huge response to counter your argument???
Your doing this to make yourself feel good about yourself. Don't use people on forums for that. Thats not something we should help you out with.
Seriously though, you are just asking for people to shoot down. You have no intent on a healthy debate. You just can't get through to the guys in charge of PSE to "debate/battle" with them, and out of your anger, you are calling out PSE employees on a fishing forum to try and rip them up, which you call "battle" but I see it as more of a way to try and make yourself feel good about yourself...
Theres no reason to argue with you when you are saying you are some gigantic warrior standing in a town square. Seriously. Thats almost funnier then ripping on Safeway gas station attendants. If you think you are already right, great. No need to come and pick arguments to try and prove it to others. Especially yourself. You seem to shut down everyones views with your own superior knowledge so theres no point in holding any debate with you.
Don't chase reports...Be the report others chase....
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iPodrodder
- Commodore
- Posts: 902
- Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 5:46 pm
- Location: Sammamish (N.00.00)
RE:Windmills!!
Hey guys, tone it down a little. LR, I know you are passionate, but that is no excuse to be calling bassackwards, who probably has no say in the wind decision, unworthy. If I worked at McDonald's as a teenager, would you grill me about why our meat has steriods and horomones in it? I sure as heck hope not. I'm just the guy who flips the patties. Am I unworthy because I am not the CEO of McDonald's and can't answer your questions? No, I'm trying to put food on the table. As is bassackwards.
RE:Windmills!!
Thanks ipod for coming in and regulating... On this note, Ima steer clear of this thread for a while...
Don't chase reports...Be the report others chase....
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Marc Martyn
- Rear Admiral Two Stars
- Posts: 4100
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:01 am
RE:Windmills!!
LR-
It appears that the readers on this forum are not worthy of your high debating skills. Perhaps you should take your debates elsewhere:
http://www.idebate.org/discussion/view_ ... .php?id=12
It appears that the readers on this forum are not worthy of your high debating skills. Perhaps you should take your debates elsewhere:
http://www.idebate.org/discussion/view_ ... .php?id=12
Last edited by Anonymous on Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Marc Martyn
- Rear Admiral Two Stars
- Posts: 4100
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:01 am
RE:Windmills!!
LR-
You have been pounding your drum about "wind power" for sometime now.......
May 5, 2007 "4 Dollars Per Gallon":
"but then there is wind... oh my gosh... what a story... they gotta make a movie out of what's going on because the media (even Fox News) refuses to cover it.....
I'll be brief..... In europe everyone supports wind power except the people who have to live near the wind farms.... Wind farms are unsightly, noisy, and the spinning blades kill so many birds that they can be honestly referred to as avian food processors (audubon society position on wind power is mildly negative... which means that they know it kills birds but they also know that most of the big rich contributors and foundations from which they receive funding grants are totally pro-wind)
But there are so many wind farms around in europe now that the number living near them is becoming a viable political force and they are angry... lots and lots of them have organized into political action groups and they all seem to have web pages... couple of years back I spent almost a week of evenings just perusing all the web pages put up by "anti-wind" action groups........ very intense words and arguements...... I can recall one group from Germany noting that they have vigils every week where all the neighbors get together and light candles and stand outside and pray as a group for no wind because when the wind blows at the correct speed to get the turbines cranking out power the noise is mind numbing......
Denmark is the leader in wind generation.. they have so many wind farms up now that the windmills have replaced their once lush forest areas and the noise and the dead birds and the screaming from the neighbors has reached fever pitch... two years ago there was strong pressure in their parliament to end the "tax credits" for building windmills and the pundits were predicting that this would go through, but I haven't followed up to verify..... but even with this many windmills (enough rated capacity to supply 3 times their electrical needs) the total contribution of the spinning turbines to their electric power needs is less than 10%.. the precise number when I was researching this example was under 3%............ they still buy most of their power from France and Germany where nuclear power is what gets the electrons moving in the transmission lines....
similar experiences are being recorded as we write in UK, Germany, Holland, etc., etc.......... Even the very famous and much covered "Altamont" project in California has a bunch of neighbors who have formed a group to try and get it shut down... About 15 years ago the turbines at Altamont were forced to shut down for a month or so in the spring and a month or so in the fall because that is when the raptors migrate through and the windmills were killing so many of them during this migration that it just didn't seem environmentally responsible continue with the carnage...... I can go on and on and on and on about this subject but I think you're getting the idea....
the bottom line is that it's still not politically correct to say it but wind has been a total and unmitigated disaster and we don't know about it yet because the media won't give us the facts......"
Why do you keep bringing this up and trying to spar with guys on the forum that want to discuss fishing?
Give it a rest!
You have been pounding your drum about "wind power" for sometime now.......
May 5, 2007 "4 Dollars Per Gallon":
"but then there is wind... oh my gosh... what a story... they gotta make a movie out of what's going on because the media (even Fox News) refuses to cover it.....
I'll be brief..... In europe everyone supports wind power except the people who have to live near the wind farms.... Wind farms are unsightly, noisy, and the spinning blades kill so many birds that they can be honestly referred to as avian food processors (audubon society position on wind power is mildly negative... which means that they know it kills birds but they also know that most of the big rich contributors and foundations from which they receive funding grants are totally pro-wind)
But there are so many wind farms around in europe now that the number living near them is becoming a viable political force and they are angry... lots and lots of them have organized into political action groups and they all seem to have web pages... couple of years back I spent almost a week of evenings just perusing all the web pages put up by "anti-wind" action groups........ very intense words and arguements...... I can recall one group from Germany noting that they have vigils every week where all the neighbors get together and light candles and stand outside and pray as a group for no wind because when the wind blows at the correct speed to get the turbines cranking out power the noise is mind numbing......
Denmark is the leader in wind generation.. they have so many wind farms up now that the windmills have replaced their once lush forest areas and the noise and the dead birds and the screaming from the neighbors has reached fever pitch... two years ago there was strong pressure in their parliament to end the "tax credits" for building windmills and the pundits were predicting that this would go through, but I haven't followed up to verify..... but even with this many windmills (enough rated capacity to supply 3 times their electrical needs) the total contribution of the spinning turbines to their electric power needs is less than 10%.. the precise number when I was researching this example was under 3%............ they still buy most of their power from France and Germany where nuclear power is what gets the electrons moving in the transmission lines....
similar experiences are being recorded as we write in UK, Germany, Holland, etc., etc.......... Even the very famous and much covered "Altamont" project in California has a bunch of neighbors who have formed a group to try and get it shut down... About 15 years ago the turbines at Altamont were forced to shut down for a month or so in the spring and a month or so in the fall because that is when the raptors migrate through and the windmills were killing so many of them during this migration that it just didn't seem environmentally responsible continue with the carnage...... I can go on and on and on and on about this subject but I think you're getting the idea....
the bottom line is that it's still not politically correct to say it but wind has been a total and unmitigated disaster and we don't know about it yet because the media won't give us the facts......"
Why do you keep bringing this up and trying to spar with guys on the forum that want to discuss fishing?
Give it a rest!
Last edited by Anonymous on Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.