• Tribal gil nets are in the water in MA 10

  • Have questions about Saltwater areas, boats, gear or techniques? This is the place for them.
Have questions about Saltwater areas, boats, gear or techniques? This is the place for them.
Forum rules: Forum Post Guidelines: This Forum is rated “Family Friendly”. Civil discussions are encouraged and welcomed. Name calling, negative, harassing, or threatening comments will be removed and may result in suspension or IP Ban without notice. Please refer to the Terms of Service and Forum Guidelines post for more information. Thank you
 #238794  by DavidA
 Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:49 pm
At the risk of fanning any flames, I see we are back to the tribes being mostly unaccountable, and the non tribal fishers being "bean counted", offered as fact rather than opinion.

Allow me to present some actual facts, and I would appreciate hearing how they are incorrect.

Commercial fisheries are required to report their catch within days, allowing fishing to be halted if harvest is excessive.
Tribal fisheries are almost exclusively commercially run.
Recreational fishers e.g. crab, report their catch up to two months after they start.
Crab reporting is only done by approximately half of those who crab. The rest simply choose not to report at all.
Some actually refer to this as being bean counted.

The system is far from perfect, but this is as would be expected with WDFW funds and staff being cut annually, as the human fishing population continues to grow. Compounding the situation is the regular cry that the other side is to blame, and when a lack of innocence for either side is proven, to complain that 'they' started it or 'they' are worse.

For the record: I am not a tribal member and I do recreationally fish crab. My catch has already been reported for this year.
 #238799  by BARCHASER1
 Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:03 pm
(My issue is salmon, not crab, I don't do crab.)

I know that degree of reporting salmon catches is the way it is supposed to be.

But is it really? Who enforces the reporting of salmon catches and ensures it is accurate? Why aren't the numbers ever made public? Why is everything such a big secret?

I just have very little faith that any of this actually works.
 #238814  by Jake Dogfish
 Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:00 am
DavidA wrote:At the risk of fanning any flames, I see we are back to the tribes being mostly unaccountable, and the non tribal fishers being "bean counted", offered as fact rather than opinion.

Allow me to present some actual facts, and I would appreciate hearing how they are incorrect.

Commercial fisheries are required to report their catch within days, allowing fishing to be halted if harvest is excessive.
Tribal fisheries are almost exclusively commercially run.
Recreational fishers e.g. crab, report their catch up to two months after they start.
Crab reporting is only done by approximately half of those who crab. The rest simply choose not to report at all.
Some actually refer to this as being bean counted.

The system is far from perfect, but this is as would be expected with WDFW funds and staff being cut annually, as the human fishing population continues to grow. Compounding the situation is the regular cry that the other side is to blame, and when a lack of innocence for either side is proven, to complain that 'they' started it or 'they' are worse.

For the record: I am not a tribal member and I do recreationally fish crab. My catch has already been reported for this year.



Your right that the tribe is the biggest commercial fishery. As for reporting, most tribes have been taking awhile:
https://tidalexchange.com/2016/12/23/no ... ibes-2016/
 #238911  by Bay wolf
 Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:37 am
First, thank you to everyone who signed and support our initiative to bring some transparency to the Tribal/State North of Falcon negotiations. I would just like to touch on the subject of Sovereign nation and State responsibility as far as our fisheries are concerned. The Native American "nations" were designated as "Sovereign" in a fairly narrow scope. They are NOT "independent nations", nor are they or their members covered under international law as "foreign" nations. That's why they do not have embassy's or get diplomatic immunity. They ARE citizen's of the United States! They are allowed to vote in all elections, state, and national. They have to obey all the laws that all citizens must. The sovereign nation pertains to tribal government and is mostly focused on reservation administrations. They have their own sovereign tribal government and can make and administer laws on reservations without State intervention. This is a simplification, as "usual and accustom places" have off reservation implications. The Government to Government status was implemented not from the Treaty language, rather from the Centennial Accord which was drafted by Bob Turner and signed by the Treaty Tribes and Governor in 1988. It mandated that state agencies recognize and interact with Indian Tribes of Washington State as Governments. Today, the Government to Government label is being used by various Tribes to conduct meetings, negotiations and make deals completely off the radar to any public oversight. They are continually pushing the line by now barring anybody they don't want in the meetings. This tactic is not only being used in our fisheries, but was used recently in a land grab in La Connor to shut out the town council, the press and citizen's that were directly impacted. According to the BIA, having meetings labeled as Gov't to Gov't DOES NOT mean no public oversight. In fact the BIA spokesmen told me: "We encourage and fully support having the public fully involved in all our meetings as it builds trust and understanding." It is ONLY in Washington State that the Tribes have used the Gov't to Gov't label to bar the public!!!
 #238912  by BARCHASER1
 Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:05 am
Good post. The original treaty was a FEDERAL treaty; Boldt was a FEDERAL judge; the case was heard in a FEDERAL court and the decision was reviewed by the Supremes, a FEDERAL body.

I've just never seen a place in any of this for the State of Washington. The email I got back from the WDFW is right. The WDFW has no jurisdiction and neither does the State. All the pressure should be on the Feds, specifically the Dept of the Interior. As long as nobody is pulling on DOI's chain, they will be quite happy to ignore the whole thing and fiddle around with Monuments.

This all reminds of when I lived in Montana in the mid 70's. AIM (the American Indian Movement) became aggressive in all areas. The Tribes, across the country, are now in a similar aggressive mood.
 #238913  by Bay wolf
 Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:36 am
Here are a few things the State can and should do if they truly supported open and fair fisheries management.

The Director of the WDFW could, for starters;
1. Formally request mediation.
2. Request assistance from the Governor and his office of tribal affairs.
3. Ask the WDFW Commission to open a dialog with the NWIFC.
4. Send and publically publish a letter to the Chair, NWIFC supporting fully open and public disclosure and asking for her consent.
5. Refuse to enter into Tribal/State North of Falcon negotiations without a set and publically published notice clearly stating the dates, times and locations of the meetings.

Our Commission could;
1. Form an action committee to work on a resolution.
2. Publically endorse full and open negotiations.
3. Formally request a meeting with the NWIFC to discuss the issue.

Our state representatives could;
1. Request mediation and assistance from the DOI, NOAH and the BIA.
2. Request the Governor mediate through his office of Indian Affairs.
3. Provide letters of support to the NWIFC, WDFW and the Governor like Rep. Pike did.

Of course, these are just a few examples of how the State could represent the largest and most financially significant stakeholders if they really wanted to. So, the real elephant in the room is why are they all fighting against letting the people know what's really going on in these so called negotiations??