FAQ Contact Forum Reports

Petition for Open WDFW/Tribal NOF Meetings

Announcements about new WL offerings, contests, problems and other related items. Fishing Clubs post your announcements here.

Re: Petition for Open WDFW/Tribal NOF Meetings

Postby Toni » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:18 am

Given time there should be no reason why we can't hit 10,000!
Check out Wannafish A Lure
Look for Wannafish A Lure on FaceBook
Official WashingtonLakes.com Sponsor

go down to the lake, cast a hook, and pull in the first fish that bites. Open its mouth and you'll find a coin.
User avatar
Toni
Sponsor
Sponsor
 
Posts: 3111
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:47 pm
Location: Graham

Re: Petition for Open WDFW/Tribal NOF Meetings

Postby Bay wolf » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:15 pm

You're right Toni, it's just going to take all of us to keep contacting and informing others. I hope our numbers continue to grow, it is that important!
Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting!
US Army 1st SGT (Ret)
User avatar
Bay wolf
Commander
 
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:52 pm

Re: Petition for Open WDFW/Tribal NOF Meetings

Postby Bay wolf » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:52 pm

As of 6:45 this evening, we are 60 signatures shy of getting our one thousandth supporter!

Let's make a real effort to get those 60 contacted, and have them sign. WE CAN MAKE A REAL DIFFERENCE HERE.

Everybody, contact somebody and lets do this!!

Transparency in our fisheries is that important!

Thanks
Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting!
US Army 1st SGT (Ret)
User avatar
Bay wolf
Commander
 
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:52 pm

Re: Petition for Open WDFW/Tribal NOF Meetings

Postby Bay wolf » Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:16 pm

Thought you guys would like to see a letter I received in response to one I sent to Director Unsworth about the Open Meetings issue. Director Unsworth passed it off to the Fish Programs Asst. Director. Here is his response:

FishProgram.AssistantDirector@dfw.wa.gov


Dear Mr. Menchaca:


Thank you for your email to Director Unsworth regarding North of Falcon fishery planning and your interest in opening meetings between WDFW and the tribal co-managers to the public. The Director forwarded your email to the Fish Program for a response. There has been more interest than usual this year in the process, and in opening co-manager meetings to the public, due largely to the delays in reaching agreement with the tribes on fisheries in Puget Sound this year.
WDFW is committed to transparency, and undertakes an extensive public rule-making process for setting North of Falcon salmon fisheries each year, following and exceeding the requirements of the Administrative Procedures Act. This process includes a long list of public meetings, and involves extensive communication between agency staff and interested stakeholders regarding status of fishery proposals and progress of negotiations with the tribes. The majority of the co-manager negotiations happen in a series of meetings with individual tribes or small groups of tribes from single watersheds, with several larger meetings with multiple tribes from around Puget Sound and coastal Washington also occurring. All public records created during the process are available. We understand the interest in opening those meetings to the public, but ultimately there are legal obstacles to doing so.
As you are likely aware, the federally-recognized tribes are legally sovereign governments. As such, tribal governments are not subject to the state’s Administrative Procedures Act, or the Open Public Meetings Act. As sovereign governments, the tribes are not required to meet with the general public, or to allow the general public into meetings with state government representatives. In the past, the tribes have allowed a limited number of members of the public to enter state-tribal North of Falcon meetings to observe, but not actively participate in the meetings. That practice was ended several years ago by the tribes, as they felt the negotiation positions of the state and tribes were being mischaracterized to the rest of the public by these observers. WDFW will continue to pursue methods like observer attendance for allowing direct public participation in co-manager meetings, but would ultimately need agreement of the tribes for this to happen
We also ultimately need to reach agreement with the tribal co-managers on fishing seasons that meet conservation objectives in order to receive Federal authorization for fisheries under the Endangered Species Act – the effects of tribal and non-tribal fishing combined must be within acceptable impact levels on all stocks. There is also the long and complicated legal history of the US v Washington court case that must be considered in setting salmon seasons. The reality is that meetings and negotiations with the tribal co-managers must occur for fishing seasons to be set – not meeting with the tribes because they do not agree to let the public into the meetings would not likely lead to a productive outcome for state fisheries.
Many of the perceived issues with co-management of fisheries are the result of the shared interest of state and tribal fishermen in protecting and harvesting a resource that has diminished from historic levels due to deterioration of habitat. We support co-management of the state’s shared resources and believe the state and tribes are far more effective when we work together to conserve fish and wildlife and their habitat. WDFW remains committed to working with the tribes to improve the North of Falcon process, to working to make that process as transparent as possible, and to helping to ensure our state’s resources are sustainable for future generations.
Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting!
US Army 1st SGT (Ret)
User avatar
Bay wolf
Commander
 
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:52 pm

Re: Petition for Open WDFW/Tribal NOF Meetings

Postby Bay wolf » Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:22 pm

Here is my reply to him. HE NEVER ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS!!!

Dear Asst. Director

Thank you for your email reply regarding the closed meetings that are held between the Treaty Tribes and the Staff of WDFW.

I am a bit confused by some of your comments, and I hope you will take a moment to clarify your statements.

You say that the tribes, as sovereign governments, are exempt from compliance with the States APA or OPMA. Can you explain why the State government is exempt solely due to “who” they are meeting with? It would appear that since the tribes oppose open meetings, the State has chosen to disregard State law?

In your letter, it says that the State is committed to transparency, and will continue to pursue methods for the public to have access to these, now closed meetings. You mention “legal obstacles”. I’m confused again. To what legal obstacles are you referring? It appears the law requires you to have these meetings open to the public. It is also clear that, the only obstacle is the Co-managers objection. Can you clarify, please?

Further. You state “ The reality is that meetings and negotiations with the tribal co-managers must occur for fishing seasons to be set – not meeting with the tribes because they do not agree to let the public into the meetings would not likely lead to a productive outcome for state fisheries.” If I’m reading this correctly, you are saying that if the tribes walk out of negotiations, because they don’t want the public to have access, we (the State) will not be able to have any fishing because we cannot get permits without the tribes agreement?
If that’s what you’re actually saying, that would mean the tribes have leverage over the State! By being able to control the outcome of the States position, the tribes can dictate how things go. That would be coercion! Please explain.


Please clarify why, after the situation with Coho-gate, the State has not made the permitting process separate from the tribes? It is clear that as long as the tribes can threaten to stop negotiations and the only repercussion is to the State, there will never be a fair and equal process.

Perhaps that’s why the Co-managers are so adamantly opposed to open meetings? Or, is the State also opposed because they don’t want the public to know that the negotiations are not quite as fair as we have been lead to believe?

Looking forward to your answers,

Respectfully,
Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting!
US Army 1st SGT (Ret)
User avatar
Bay wolf
Commander
 
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:52 pm

Re: Petition for Open WDFW/Tribal NOF Meetings

Postby Toni » Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:25 pm

I take that to mean there will not be opened.
Check out Wannafish A Lure
Look for Wannafish A Lure on FaceBook
Official WashingtonLakes.com Sponsor

go down to the lake, cast a hook, and pull in the first fish that bites. Open its mouth and you'll find a coin.
User avatar
Toni
Sponsor
Sponsor
 
Posts: 3111
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:47 pm
Location: Graham

Re: Petition for Open WDFW/Tribal NOF Meetings

Postby Bay wolf » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:19 pm

Toni wrote:I take that to mean there will not be opened.


Hey Toni. I don't read it that way. What I see is the standard tactic of trying to make it sound so complicated that we don't need to worry about it.

Also, if you read between the lines, he is admitting that the State is at the mercy of the Tribes. If they (tribes) "walk out" (which means they aren't negotiating in good faith) we don't get to fish. The tribes fish, we don't! He's pretty much saying WE have to do whatever the tribes want, or risk them waking out!!

There will be a resolution that works for us...there are too many people watching now for them to ignore us.
Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting!
US Army 1st SGT (Ret)
User avatar
Bay wolf
Commander
 
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:52 pm

Re: Petition for Open WDFW/Tribal NOF Meetings

Postby G-Man » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:44 pm

"As you are likely aware, the federally-recognized tribes are legally sovereign governments. As such, tribal governments are not subject to the state’s Administrative Procedures Act, or the Open Public Meetings Act. As sovereign governments, the tribes are not required to meet with the general public, or to allow the general public into meetings with state government representatives."

This portion of his reponse is pretty cut and dry. If the tribes don't want the meetings open to the public, the public won't be allowed to attend. Somewhere along the line, the supposed 50/50 split outlined in the Bolt decision needs to be enforced. I think it is high time for economic sanctions for those nations who do not honor the agreement. Imagine if non-tribal buyers of seafood had to pay an import fee/tarrif on tribal caught fish/crab/shrimp?
User avatar
G-Man
Admiral
 
Posts: 2590
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:01 am
Location: Bellevue, WA

Re: Petition for Open WDFW/Tribal NOF Meetings

Postby dj2loud » Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:41 pm

Bay wolf wrote:Many of the perceived issues with co-management of fisheries are the result of the shared interest of state and tribal fishermen in protecting and harvesting a resource that has diminished from historic levels due to deterioration of habitat. We support co-management of the state’s shared resources and believe the state and tribes are far more effective when we work together to conserve fish and wildlife and their habitat. .


Is he a retarded idiot??? His direct answer is deterioration of habitat ??? WHAT A MORON!
dj2loud
Warrant Officer
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:33 pm

Re: Petition for Open WDFW/Tribal NOF Meetings

Postby Bay wolf » Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:01 pm

G-Man wrote:"As you are likely aware, the federally-recognized tribes are legally sovereign governments. As such, tribal governments are not subject to the state’s Administrative Procedures Act, or the Open Public Meetings Act. As sovereign governments, the tribes are not required to meet with the general public, or to allow the general public into meetings with state government representatives."

This portion of his reponse is pretty cut and dry. If the tribes don't want the meetings open to the public, the public won't be allowed to attend. Somewhere along the line, the supposed 50/50 split outlined in the Bolt decision needs to be enforced. I think it is high time for economic sanctions for those nations who do not honor the agreement. Imagine if non-tribal buyers of seafood had to pay an import fee/tarrif on tribal caught fish/crab/shrimp?


Of course that's his response..what he doesn't address is that the Commission, who delegates it's authority to WDFW, IS BOUND be the Sunshine laws of the State. The Tribes have got the state in a position of being dependent on them in order to have any share of the resource. That is NOT Co-management. It is the Tribes telling the State, either agree to what we want, or else!
Either keep the public out and violate the law, or you won't get permits to fish! Or, they want more than 50%, or they walk. Who knows what the heck they are demanding (and getting) because WE ARE SHUT OUT!
Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting!
US Army 1st SGT (Ret)
User avatar
Bay wolf
Commander
 
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:52 pm

Re: Petition for Open WDFW/Tribal NOF Meetings

Postby Bay wolf » Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:27 pm

1,000 STRONG AND GROWING!

When I started this petition, I was angry. I thought there was others out there that must be as angry as I am. I wanted to give those people a voice, to say WE ARE DONE BEING IGNORED, CAST ASIDE AND TREATED LIKE DIRT!
I was not sure if I would even get any signatures.

TONIGHT WE CROSSED THE 1,000 MARK!


It is easy to chase numbers when doing a petition. After all, it is the number that grabs the headlines. But the true power of this petition is the people behind it. You, your neighbor, your friends…the very people that WDFW has ignored for so long.

One thousand signatures is a very powerful statement. But, when the suits at WDFW start talking percentages, they will try to make it look like we are very few compared to the 5.2 Million license holders out there. WE CAN’T LET THEM USE THAT TACTIC ON US!

I know you are passionate about this. I know you are as fed up with the mess that has become our co-management system. And I know you want this to be fixed. So, once again I ask.

Find those that are still out there. There are many, many who we have yet to reach. WE REALLY NEED TO KEEP GROWING. WE CAN LEAVE NO DOUBT THAT WE REPRESENT THE MAJORITY. GET OTHERS TO JOIN THE FIGHT!

USE THIS PRINTABLE PETITION FLYER: PRINT IT, GET IT OUT. PEOPLE CAN SIGN IT.
Click Here for Petition Flyerhttps://app.box.com/s/8wptwbyjp6xyrz3po1f3xmie2tgeuejc

KEEP FIGHTING!! WE HAVE SOME VERY GOOD NEWS ON THE HORIZON!
Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting!
US Army 1st SGT (Ret)
User avatar
Bay wolf
Commander
 
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:52 pm

Re: Petition for Open WDFW/Tribal NOF Meetings

Postby Bay wolf » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:32 pm

WE ARE NOT ALONE IN THIS FIGHT!

Today we received a copy of an Email that was sent out from The Twin Harbors Fish and Wildlife Advocacy, (THFWA) to it’s NOF Interested Party Contact List.

THFWA has been involved in the betterment of our fishers for many years, and has spearheaded many important initiatives. AND they have gotten good results! They are ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN THE CLOSED MEETING ISSUE.

The combined efforts of THFWA, along with your signatures and support on this petition has truly created a force that cannot be ignored!

Here is a copy of the THFWA email, which address’s Dir. Unsworth letter, and links to their web site where the full letters and more information on their actions can be read.


January 10, 2017
To: NOF Interested Party Contact List

Recently, the Twin Harbors Fish & Wildlife Advocacy shared a letter addressed to WDFW Director Jim Unsworth and Lorraine Loomis of the Northwest Indian Fisheries Commission. The letter ask the two comanagers to cease the practice of meeting behind closed doors when setting fishing seasons in the North of Falcon process.

WDFW Director Jim Unsworth has responded to the Advocacy's letter and the NWIFC did so with the media. The Director states that the meetings are closed by the tribes due to "mischaracterization" of the tribal positions by observers allowed to sit in on meeting in the past. He goes on to state "Unfortunately, this means the general public has not direct access to the negotiations without an invitation from the tribes."
The Advocacy has issued a response to the Director. The response outlines how the Advocacy will never accept the notion that citizens can only participate in governmental processes by invitation from the tribal comanagers. Then, only if the citizens agree to give up their constitutional rights to free speech. In doing so, the Advocacy explains the case law and application of the Open Public Meeting Act (OPMA). In an effort to avoid the need for intervention in the courts, the Advocacy asks the WDFW Commission to take actions during its meeting in Vancouver this weekend to insure the Department operates within the state's transparency laws. The Advocacy response is available on the Advocacy website here. The Director's letter is also available here. http://thfwa.org/THFWA HOME PAGE
When the Advocacy originally published the initial letter, Perry Menchaca of Tacoma took the initiative of creating an electronic petition of support for opening up the secret meetings between the state and tribal comanagers. In a truly remarkable show of unity, over 1,000 citizens have signed the petition with more coming on each day. The petition is available on this link to the change.org website.
More to come.....


Respectfully,
Tim Hamilton, President
Twin Harbors Fish & Wildlife Advocacy
Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting!
US Army 1st SGT (Ret)
User avatar
Bay wolf
Commander
 
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:52 pm

Re: Petition for Open WDFW/Tribal NOF Meetings

Postby Toni » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:41 pm

I am part of the contact list. I put all of it on facebook. What I take away was their response to the Director and court was mentioned in passing
Check out Wannafish A Lure
Look for Wannafish A Lure on FaceBook
Official WashingtonLakes.com Sponsor

go down to the lake, cast a hook, and pull in the first fish that bites. Open its mouth and you'll find a coin.
User avatar
Toni
Sponsor
Sponsor
 
Posts: 3111
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:47 pm
Location: Graham

Re: Petition for Open WDFW/Tribal NOF Meetings

Postby Bay wolf » Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:57 pm

Toni wrote:I am part of the contact list. I put all of it on facebook. What I take away was their response to the Director and court was mentioned in passing


Thanks again Toni. Your support is invaluable!

In their original letter to the Director, they warned of a lawsuit. I think that's what originally got the Commission to start seeking legal views. Now that this petition has caught on fire, the "legality" of having the doors open is compounded with the need to address the Publics Outcry that it is unacceptable.

I spent the day getting flyers out. Got a really good response from the sportsmen and women. Not so much from the corporations. They don't want to touch anything political. I get it. There in business for profit.

Has anyone heard anything about the larger PSA Chapters sharing the petition link to it's membership?



Going to be VERY INTERESTING what the Commission says at the meeting on Friday!
Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting!
US Army 1st SGT (Ret)
User avatar
Bay wolf
Commander
 
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:52 pm

Re: Petition for Open WDFW/Tribal NOF Meetings

Postby Toni » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:21 pm

I read the agenda and I didn't see the NOF meeting with the tribes mentioned. Unless it was mentioned in a way I didn't understand
Check out Wannafish A Lure
Look for Wannafish A Lure on FaceBook
Official WashingtonLakes.com Sponsor

go down to the lake, cast a hook, and pull in the first fish that bites. Open its mouth and you'll find a coin.
User avatar
Toni
Sponsor
Sponsor
 
Posts: 3111
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:47 pm
Location: Graham

Re: Petition for Open WDFW/Tribal NOF Meetings

Postby Bay wolf » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:13 am

10:45 AM 5. North of Falcon Policy C-3608 – Decision
The Commission will consider adoption of proposed modifications to the North of Falcon Policy C-3608. Adopted policy would be in effect from January 2017 through December 2018. Department staff will also brief the Commission on efforts to address greater public transparency within the North of Falcon proceedings.
- Summary - PDF Format ( 863 Kb)

Here you go.
Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting!
US Army 1st SGT (Ret)
User avatar
Bay wolf
Commander
 
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:52 pm

Re: Petition for Open WDFW/Tribal NOF Meetings

Postby Bay wolf » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:46 pm

The Commission is meeting this Friday and Saturday.

They have the topic of Opening these meetings on the Agenda.

We NEED EVERYONE to send in an email, not "asking", "DEMANDING" they get these meetings open to the public. Doesn't have to be long. In fact just a line or two is perfect. Just as long as they get it!

Here is their email address: commission@dfw.wa.gov

Here is a copy of my email:

Commissioners,

As a citizen of Washington state, a stakeholder in our fisheries, I demand the North of Falcon Meetings between WDFW and the Treaty Tribes be opened to full public oversight.

NO MORE SECRET MEETINGS!

Pmenchaca
Tacoma,WA
Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting!
US Army 1st SGT (Ret)
User avatar
Bay wolf
Commander
 
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:52 pm

Re: Petition for Open WDFW/Tribal NOF Meetings

Postby Larry3215 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:10 am

Email sent.
User avatar
Larry3215
Commodore
 
Posts: 1473
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:02 pm

Re: Petition for Open WDFW/Tribal NOF Meetings

Postby fisherman92 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:08 am

Email Sent!
User avatar
fisherman92
Petty Officer
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:19 pm
Location: Lake Stevens

Re: Petition for Open WDFW/Tribal NOF Meetings

Postby Bay wolf » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:02 am

Thanks guys.

I also put the request out in the Petition Update (1,132 signatures to date), so hopefully many, many others also sent in emails!

It would be great if the Commissioner's went to their emails today and got sick! [scared]
Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting!
US Army 1st SGT (Ret)
User avatar
Bay wolf
Commander
 
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:52 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Announcements and Fishing/Club Notices

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bay wolf, Larry3215, primetime, Toni and 2 guests