Here we go again!

[Bay wolf]

Can the thumbing of the nose get any more blatant?
http://tidalexchange.com/2016/12/23/no- ... ibes-2016/

This has got to stop!! I sent a copy to the Commission along with a request for an explanation. Any bets on if I will even get a reply at all?

[Amx]

This has been going on for way too many years. Past time to kick the tribes out altogether. No participation on their part to set the seasons, no fishing at all, sound or rivers. If they are caught fishing they forfeit their gear, boats, vehicles, licenses for life, and go to jail for many years.

[Larry3215]

Thats just not right at all.

[hewesbob]

In MY opinion the tribes are way more organized then anybody has given them credit for. They seem to be boycotting the system and the ONLY way the sport fisherman CAN be heard is to boycott that same system. Stop buying saltwater license, report cards and any thing else to do with Salmon fishing. Stop going to Tribal casinos. Stop buying gas at Tribal gas stations. Stop buy cigarettes at Tribal smoke shops. Until folks realize that spending money at tribal businesses is money the tribes are using to organize against sport fishermen thing will get worse. By not buying Saltwater Licenses it MAY get the attention of Fish and Game. Right now Fish and Game are planning huge increases in license fees and charging for report card and it amazes me that more folks are not up in arms about this. I also believe as the tribes become more organized that the folks representing the sport fishermen are becoming less organized. From every thing I read, The folks at Fish and Game have a tremendous amount of rules and laws to follow so they go to these meetings and everybody is just trying to stay with in their framework of laws. These same people could have the courage to challenge and try to change these laws but it seems that none of them want to create problems so anything that is shoved at them as long as it is within the framework they accept and then come out of their closed door meetings and tell us that they did the best they could do. I don't think there is any way they can force the tribes to report accurate catches and if they tried to the tribes will say they just won't allow a Sport Fishery and I think they could make it happen. After all, non tribal folks will continue to buy saltwater licenses, they will continue to gamble in tribal casinos, buy there gas at tribal gas stations, and drive several miles out of their way to save a couple bucks at tribal smoke shops and continue to finance the very organized tribal effort they complain about. Like I said at the beginning, this is MY opinion, but I'm sure some body will chime in on how wrong my opinion is.

[Mike Carey]

It would have been a stronger piece of investigative journalism if the writer had made contact with any of the various tribes to get a comment or any type of input from them. For example: "we contacted tribe x to get their side of the story and they had no comment". There is a bit of that in the comments section, but that's hardly an attempt to do a far and balanced piece of reporting.

There's not even mention of contacting WDFW to ask anyone there what is common practice and turn around time for reporting - by all parties involved. For example: We contact Mr. Smith at WDFW in charge of report statistics he he told us..."

Further - the article says not a single coho was reported caught. Does that mean the tribes sent in reports and claimed none were caught, or they haven't sent in reports at all? Maybe the require date for posting this information is at the end of the year? We don't know, because the article doesn't say it. For example: "These reports are normally supposed to be shared by..."

So disturbing as this information is, to me there are way too many unanswered questions and missing information to draw any solid conclusions from the article. Hopefully the next article will address these types of issues which would go a long way toward establishing credibility and not just feeling like a one sided piece of reporting.

[Larry3215]

Good points Mike, but he did say this:

The Tulalip Tribe deserves credit–they appear to have submitted a full census of their Chinook fisheries: 230 fish tickets submitted and 1677 Chinook caught. The other five reporting tribes (Nooksack, Puyallup, Sauk-Suiattle, Swinomish, and Upper Skagit) combined to report just 37 additional fish tickets and 218 fish in total. Over the coming days, we’re going to compare these fish tickets to the days/dates these Tribes had Chinook fisheries open to get a sense for the quality of the reporting here.

That shows that some of the tribes did submit some "tickets" while many didnt. He also mentions that tribal netting was open and closed at various times and places. The implication being that reports are due at some point after the season closes.

Does anyone know when the due dates are or how to find that information?

[Larry3215]

Ok, I found this:

http://nwifc.org/about-us/fisheries-man ... fisheries/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How are tribal fisheries managed and enforced?

Each treaty Indian tribe in western Washington maintains a monitoring staff that samples salmon that are caught in fisheries. Every salmon is also reported to the tribe on a fish ticket. That catch data is compiled and shared on a same-day basis with the state co-managers. Compared to sport catches, which are estimated based on catch record cards reported months later by individual fishermen, tribal fisheries report their catches within days.

So the author of that article is right to expect all "tickets" to already have been turned in. Its the law.

[Mike Carey]

Ok, I found this:

http://nwifc.org/about-us/fisheries-man ... fisheries/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How are tribal fisheries managed and enforced?

Each treaty Indian tribe in western Washington maintains a monitoring staff that samples salmon that are caught in fisheries. Every salmon is also reported to the tribe on a fish ticket. That catch data is compiled and shared on a same-day basis with the state co-managers. Compared to sport catches, which are estimated based on catch record cards reported months later by individual fishermen, tribal fisheries report their catches within days.

So the author of that article is right to expect all "tickets" to already have been turned in. Its the law.

good reference. Think how much better the article would have been if the writer had just added that piece of information and an attempt at actually talking with some tribal fisheries representatives. My concerns with the article is the lack of detail and specificity. There's a lack of fact checking and digging into the subject that makes it feel like a hatchet job on first read.

I'd be really interested to see them dig into the issue deeper and try to put some feet to the fire. That's how people are held accountable and real answers are found.

[Bay wolf]

Fully concur Mike. My intent in posting the link is for public information first and foremost. One of the biggest obstacles in all of this Co-management process is transparency. It is the lack of transparency which leads to mistrust, assumptions and misinformation.

In many, many cases, (I have personal experience) requests for comment or information result in silence, from both State and Tribal representatives. And even when doing a PDR, the process is so convoluted that you may never get what your looking for.

I think one thing we can all agree on is things are not getting better. The number of opportunities and fish are dwindling. Layers and layers of rules, regulations and policies have not made the fisheries any better.

For Co-management to work, it NEEDS to have equality. If one user group has leverage over the other (permits for example) and dollars are involved (fish in net=dollars in pocket) the perception is that one group will use that influence to manipulate the system to their benefit.

To that point, there have been some very telling indications that is what is actually going on: Last years "Coho-gate" is a prime example.

Transparency is key. And with the WDFW/Tribal NOF negotiations being behind closed doors, we, the public, have been excluded from the information which results in the fishing regulations and division of allocations which are at the heart of contention.

Whether the tribes reported any catch or not is not really the problem, it is only a symptom of a much larger issue. And that issue is, the current Co-management process is broken. We need the entire process to be open to the public so we can see exactly where the problems are (on both managers sides) and fix them.

[Mike Carey]

agree 100%

[Larry3215]

The key to that is the politicians.

I dont think they want things open to public scrutiny. If things were open it wold be much more difficult to hide the influence money has on this process.

It all comes down to money.

The tribes make a large part of the livelihood from fishing. Plus there are the cultural issues involved, so I can understand where they are coming from. I dont agree with their methods, but I understand and sympathize with them to some degree.

The commercial guys are also motivated by money. Thats their livelihood as well and I can understand that.

The real problem with both the tribes and commercial guys is they are killing the fisheries.

BUT - the ones who are allowing this to happen are the politicians who take money from both groups to allow them to do that killing.

Its the politicians we need to go after.

[dwh4784]

So the tribes can net whenever they want, regardless of if it's their day or not. WDFW won't or can't enforce. Tribes can report whatever they choose to, WDFW won't or can't enforce. But don't forget about all of the posts on here about snaggers and poachers, car prowlers in the parking spots, that yet again, WDFW won't or can't enforce. Don't worry though, they'll shut down bass fishing on Lake Washington to protect the salmon...

[AJ's Dad]

The original post to this thread referred to this issue being a thumbing of the nose. Looks more like a flipping of the finger to me.

[Bodofish]

The Tribes don't care. They don't have to, they hold all the cards. Until the Fed. Gov. gets a court case and the supreme court says the Boldt decision is BS we are stuck with what we have. The State is powerless to change anything.

[Bay wolf]

The Tribes don't care. They don't have to, they hold all the cards. Until the Fed. Gov. gets a court case and the supreme court says the Boldt decision is BS we are stuck with what we have. The State is powerless to change anything.

The tribes have a major trump card. That is, our NOAA permits are piggybacked on the tribes permits. Because the tribal permits are "Fast Tracked" ours are not. So IF the tribes walk out, or just plain won't agree (like Coho-gate last season) then we lose out, not them. We suspect the tribes are using this "Trump card" as leverage in the closed door meetings at NOF, threatening to walk out if WDFW doesn't give them what they demand. Of course, WDFW says any season is better then no season, so they give in. Over and over and over....

Want to make a difference? Sign the petition to open the meetings if you haven't already done so. If you have, than please get some others to sign.

https://www.change.org/p/open-the-wdfw- ... m=copylink

[Toni]

We are starting to share the petition on facebook too

[Bay wolf]

Excellent Toni.. I saw your comment on the petition page. Thank you for your support and for all your efforts to help fix our fisheries!


Just past 197 signatures. Getting more guys and gals sharing so our hope is we will increase momentum!

Again, thank you.

[Toni]

Excellent Toni.. I saw your comment on the petition page. Thank you for your support and for all your efforts to help fix our fisheries!


Just past 197 signatures. Getting more guys and gals sharing so our hope is we will increase momentum!

Again, thank you.

we need 500 now!

[Bay wolf]

Excellent Toni.. I saw your comment on the petition page. Thank you for your support and for all your efforts to help fix our fisheries!


Just past 197 signatures. Getting more guys and gals sharing so our hope is we will increase momentum!

Again, thank you.

we need 500 now!

I LIKE THE WAY YOU THINK!!

[Bay wolf]

OVER 300 AND COUNTING! WHAT A FANTASTIC EFFORT FROM ALL OF YOU. THANK YOU!

Keep sharing with everyone you know. There are so many frustrated and angry people who we need to reach so they can add their support and be heard!